CathNews - a Service of Church Resources

Have Your Say 

Recent Comments

1. I have just returned from Vietnam where I witnessed children in one parish who came straight from school to the church to attend Mass (more than 1,000 of them) then into the classrooms of the parish centre for 1 hour of catechesis before going home for their dinner at 8pm. These were children aged 6-16 years. Normal, happy kids, bubbling with energy and enthusiasm!

   Posted By: Joan Clements

2. Bishop Holohan's comments are timely. I teach in a catholic seconday school and have first hand experience of the bishop's concerns. First Communion for nearly all our students was Last Communion. Reconciliation ditto and the few who have been confirmed have little or no understanding of what they went through let alone its implications for christian discipleship.
   While Catholics have a right to the sacraments, there are also obligations involved. Recently I heard a priest say - "I will baptise anyone's child whether they are practising catholics or not. Its all about planting a seed and leaving the rest up to God." Well of course that makes nonsense of the meaning of the sacrament, the promises made and the creed proclaimed during the baptismal rite, but that didn't seem to worry this particular priest. Another story came to light recently. In one school the preparation for Reconciliation consisted in part with bringing in parents and grand-parents who shared all their horror stories of going to confession in the bad old days and the guilt they felt. I am over 50 and have been a regular penitent all my life - I can't recall one bad experience - perhaps some people confuse a sense of remorse and occasional shame with 'bad experiences'? Besides, confession is concerned with moving on from guilt, which is a concern for our own feelings, and expressing remorse, which is concern for the other. Then, after everyone had poured out their guilt trips, the focus of the sacrament was stressed in terms of being 'reconciled' with your playmates - the notion of confessing one's sins to a loving and forgiving Father didn't get much of a look in. The emphasis again was on the self.
   The catechesis that takes place in too many of our schools is still influenced by the liberal establishment that wrested control in the 70's and their biased agenda still dominates. They seem unable and unwlling to recognise that the Church has moved on, and their so called battles with the 'pre-Vatican II Church' are based on a foundational misunderstanding. There never was a pre-vatican II Church, in the strict sense of the term, as if the Vatican Council was a break with the past.
   Over and over again I confront staff with their negative views about the Church, the hierarchy, the meaning of the sacraments, and especially the liturgy which they see as their play-thing. It is possible for a student to go through a Catholic school and not experience the Mass as the Mass is meant to be celebrated because of a superficial understanding of how to get the students 'involved'. Many staff in Catholic schools are ill equipped to form young people in the faith. Often sacramental preparation is done by teachers who are not practising Catholics. The situation is laughable. Until a new generation of adequately trained young teachers come though, who don't have out-dated chips on the shoulders about the Church and are themselves confident practising catholics - disciples of Jesus Christ, things will not get better. In the meantime, a smaller, leaner Church may be required.

   Posted By: phillip

3. Just as a little FYI - in the Eastern Catholic Church, a baby receives all three sacraments. The Mystery of Chrismation follows immediately after the Mystery of Baptism. Through the Mystery of Chrismation, one becomes an anointed one, and become one with Christ. As part of the Chrismation ceremony, the priest places chrism in the form of a cross on the baby's forehead, eyes, nostrils, mouth, ears, breast, hands, and feet. And as he does this, he says, "The seal of the gift of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Baptism is in the name of the Trinity, and sealed with the Gift of the Holy Spirit in Chrismation (Confirmation), where then one becomes members of Christ's Body, the Church, by being born again, through water and the Spirit into the life of the Trinity. The Baptism and Chrismation mark the beginning of the baby's new life in Christ and membership in the Church. With the seal of the gift of the Holy Spirit, we will have the courage to follow Jesus in everything that we do. The Holy Eucharist is also given to the baby. In the gospel of Saint John, Jesus tells us that we are dead unless we eat of His body and drink of His blood. So after being Baptized and Chrismated, the baby receives thr Mystery o of the Holy Eucharist . Receiving the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, one becomes one with God and each other. So then the child begins a new life and joins other Christians in bulding up the Kingdom of God. By receiving the Eucharist from a very young age, and frequently, the child is united with Christ; seeks His divine mercy and forgiveness, while gratefully accepting His gift of everlasting life; and proclaim His death and resurrection while anticipating His Second Coming. When all three are given to one so young, it therefore brings about many graces!

   Posted By: Maggie

4. I could not think of a clearer way of re-stating the problem that has been spoken about many times amongst those involved in Catholic schools and religious education since the time of Vatican II, and more recently by priests and others involved in the pastoral and faith development responsibilities of local parishes.
   
   To have as intelligent and an articulate person as Bishop Holohan state this problem openly and in language that can be understood by lay Catholics, while also offering one possible solution, is in itself a huge step forward in the possibility of the problem being addressed - that is, someone might actually do something about it.

   Posted By: Alan Wedd

5. While in effect the bishop is right, blaming families seems typical clerical buck passing. The vast majority of Catholic families send their children to Catholic schools in the misguided belief they can trust proper religious instruction to the Church. Given the state of religious instruction in Catholic schools the net result is that 90% of those educated in Catholic schools leave the Church. As my elderly grandfather in law said to me, there must be nothing wrong with this because the bishops do absolutely nothing about it.

   Posted By: Daniel McGlone

6. As a Religious Ed teacher for 30+ years..I have seen [sadly], a decline in attendance after 3rd graders receiving the Sacrament of Confirmation.
   Sadly some of these children do not have the vaguest idea of what much of the Catholic Church teaches. I had one class of 3rd graders of which it took 3-4 lessons on just learning the Our Father..and then they are supposed to understand much else? It is disheartening, but true...parents just do not bring them back...after Confirmation.

   Posted By: Clare

7. It is very true. It seems the parents learn more than the children do. Year 7 is too young. I think year 10 and above more suitable age to receive Reconcilation, First Holy com and Confirmation. Even the children don’t know how to recite Our Father, Hail Mary and glory to be father. They don’t know what is sin? If we ask children what is sin, they look around. It happens also sometimes during the confession time if we ask pls say your sins.

   Posted By: joy

8. All the comments have validity, so the priest who recognises a spark of faith is correct. Keep it up Father, you never know who is now a 'light to the world' who was given a chance.
   Phill, I hope you modify your approach before my grandchildren reach your school.
   Correction, if your experience has always been good you are indeed fortunate. I have frequently been part of discussions where people have decried their experiences at the hands of inept, angry , or downright negligent priests in the confessional.

   Posted By: Elizabeth

9. Elizabeth, I don't think Phillip was denying that it's good for people to discuss bad experiences they have had with the sacraments. Rather he was pointing out the inappropriateness (he didn't mention it's also canonically illicit) of adults doing this as part of the catechesis of children. All it would do is give the kids a distorted view of the sacrament and confuse and frighten them.
   
   If people feel a need to unload their baggage and get all their complaints about the Church off their chest, please don't dump them onto our innocent children, who in most cases have a genuine desire to learn and believe, hampered in many cases by being given very little help, example or truthful information by either their parents nor teachers.

   Posted By: Ronk

10. The comments made by Phillip resonate with my own boss whose name is also Phil and who leads our Religious Education faculty at a Catholic secondary school. I agree completely with everything he has to say here. It is difficult to say what or who is the first cause of this dilemma. Nevertheless, my job as an RE teacher would be a lot easier if the parents of the students that I teach supported what the Catholic Church teaches and believes. My job would also be easier if all the priests in my archdiocese reinforced what the Catholic Church teaches. While many can give a sermon that is very inspiring, simple catechesis over the pulpit can be very effective even to those who have already heard it before.
    
    Through the centuries clergy and parents alike have failed to fulfil their mission and vocation of passing on the truths of our faith to the children entrusted to their care. This is a complex problem with a simple solution. Take the responsibilty of preparing children for the sacraments from the Catholic Primary Schools and hand it back to the priest of the local parish. I completed my Bachelor of Education (primary) at ACU and I know that the majority, if not all of the students graduating in my year did not posess the love of the Church nor the faith to prepare children adequately for these sacraments. The general feeling about this task was that we were getting the children ready to participate in a Christmas Game rather than something that had eternal consequences for their souls. Basically all that has to be done is Baptise, Confirm and give first Holy Communion to the children of parents who are practising Catholics.
    
    Why should the priest be responsible? Because he knows those parents who are committed to bringing their children to Mass each Sunday. As a father for the first time I know what a commitment this is. Also, if the priest has the sole responsibility, he also possesses all the accountability. Several poorly trained primary school teachers who themselves have not been properly taught the Catholic faith cannot be responsible for the lack of understanding of the faith of a child. But a priest with years of expensive training can be. Moreover, if the priest is teaching outright heresy, which is not uncommon, the children will come home sprouting this stuff to the horror of the parents and they can go to another parish or the priest can be weeded out. See how the laity can exercise their power. Anyway, enough said!!
    

    Posted By: david

11. An even bigger and broader question to be asked is, "what is the point of Catholic education?" As a teacher I question whether 'bad' Catholic education is worse than 'no' Catholic education. I remember trying to teach year 10's about the Church's teaching on sexuality and marriage, only to hear them commenting that Mrs. X and Mr. Z who teach other subjects don't believe in all that Catholic stuff, (and have said so in their other lessons). With the loss of religious orders who brought a deep foundation of faith and lifestyle, we are left now with a plethora of teachers who don't teach in Catholic schools because they believe, but because it is just a job. I personally feel we need to allow a contraction of Catholic education in order to clean it up and refocus it.

    Posted By: Catherine

12. At a recent confirmation ceremony, I was told that the students would be gathering at the Cathedral, so that they wouldn't be 'scared' or overawed by the environment of the Cathedral. I asked, "why?!" I was told that these poor little treasures had never been to the Cathedral and they might feel uncomfortable... and that many of them were not used to being in a church, so they needed a practice. I went along to the Confirmations that night... lots of expensive, beautiful new clothes, but I couldn't help but feel a sadness at the double-mindedness of the participating families. I can't help but wonder, "why are you getting your child confirmed?" We really need to wrestle with this issue as a church.

    Posted By: c.d.

13. One should not prevent these children from receiving the sacrament, but rather provide greater opportunity for them to learn in environments other than from their families. The Church is open to all; nobody is perfect and even those of little faith are welcome.

    Posted By: Tim

14. Until Pope Pius X decided to overturn the many centuries' long order of receiving the sacraments in the early part of the 20th century, perhaps thinking he was doing the right thing, there was a theological and spiritual movement from baptism to confirmation to eucharist. The natural flow of things was altered, became more person-centred than Christ-centred and look where we are now.

    Posted By: brendoon

• » Advertise in CathNews

Email to Friend Please fill out the following details (fields marked with a * are mandatory):
Send To Email Address*:
Send To Name *:
Sent By Email Address*:
Sent By Name *:
Text to include in email:
Captcha validation:	please enter the code above:

^ Page Top

Comment on this article

More from this section

1. Qld, Vic school teachers in new abuse cases

   A former Catholic College Bendigo staff member has pleaded guilty to sexually abusing two young boys twenty years ago while a Darling Downs Catholic school teacher has been charged with seven counts of rape.

2. Asylum seeker exposé draws huge response

   An SBS television documentary featuring an Edmund Rice Centre exposé on the treatment of rejected asylum seekers has drawn a huge response, ERC director Phil Glendenning says.

3. Breaching laws hit families: CSSA

   Harsh social security breaching laws impact on families with up to 50 percent of breached job seekers falling behind in their rent, Catholic Social Services chief Frank Quinlan has told a Senate enquiry.

4. Naked priest trying "to stay healthy"

   A magistrate has fined Melbourne priest Fr Wieslaw Pawlowski $400 for sunbaking naked in a suburban park.

5. Catholic Healthcare pilots squalor phone hotline

   Catholic Healthcare is to launch a Sydney telephone hotline to coordinate responses to people living in domestic squalor.