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1. I always believed that it was God who forgave sins in confessipon. Now it seems this is not so, and that there are some sins that not even God can forgive- it has to be the Pope. I thin k the article must be wrong as it goes against the undestanding of everything I was taught to believe aboiut confession. It is time the Vatican dispensed with this thirteenth century monstrosity.

   Posted By: Ian Fairweather

2. Ian, that's what you get for getting your theology from The Times Online. They are confusing "forgiveness" with the lifting of the canonical sanction of excommunication.
   
   Not sure what you mean by "13th century monstrosity" but the Church has had confession, excommunication, etc since Christ taught the Apostles.

   Posted By: Ronk

3. I agree with Ian.I have an MA (Theology) and a long record teaching Religious Studies and this is the first I have read of this situation. I agree God forgives, not man!
   Ronk, these things were not part of Jesus' teachings they came much later. Jesus did not directly start the Church either.
   Gavin

   Posted By: Gavin O'Brien

4. Ian, no, it's time to dispense with the silly anti-Catholic bigotry and what the Church actually teaches. Priests "absolve" penitents in virtue of Christ's sacrificial merits. God forgives; priests pronounce absolution as they are instructed to do in scripture. For God's forgiveness to be effective in one's life, one must be contrite and repentant. It's this contrition and repentance that the Church has to weigh before lifting excommunication. No where in RC teaching does the Church claim to usurp God's authority in forgiving sins. As with most mass-media reports on the Church, this piece is theologically ignorant. Fr. Philip Powell, OP, PhD

   Posted By: PNP, OP

5. SO if a person had confessed this years ago and the priest gave absolution it was an invalid absolution and one must reconfess via the Papal route?

   Posted By: Jane Doe

6. Ronk, thanks for your good response. I am thoroughly fed up of the ceaseless attacks directed against the Catholic Church and her holy doctrines.
   
   Lately, the attacks are aimed at the very roots of our faith, that is the Holy Mass and Sacraments because Lucifer very well knows that, if you take away the Mass and the Sacraments, then, you have no Catholic Church. And, just like Judas, who was one of the twelve, it is those in the very bosom of The Church who attack and calumniate. These are the ones who love public opinion and honors, claiming that the Church is stuck in the past and should style up. Just because she upholds Truths which she has everywhere and always taught, regardless of the times.
   
   However, this is mainly due to a lack of understanding of her doctrines (bad catechisms); errors imbibed in from the sects (false ecumenism); the modernist/progressivist spirit. All of which were strongly condemned by previous popes and Church councils.
   
   In any case, whether they know it or not, these apostates within the Catholic Church serve Lucifer, in reality.

   Posted By: lobengula

7. I sinned greatly in 1976 when at 17 I chose abortion as a answer to my situation. About five years later I realised what I had done. Ever since then I have been truly sorry. I have confessed this several times in confession and have spoken to others of my grave error. Do I still need anything from the Pope to know that the Lord has forgiven me? I feel I have suffered tremendously over the years because of this early decision. Please let me know what else needs to be done......

   Posted By: B. Slager

8. I'm not sure how a "catholic" news website could so grossly mischaracterise the Catholic Church's views. If one has procured or assisted in procuring an abortion, there is no need to confess to the Pope personally, but only to a priest in communion with the Church. The same goes for any other sin. It looks as though this news website is confusing forgiveness of sins with the lifting of excommunication.

   Posted By: Braxton

9. Ian, obviously you missed a very important part of what Jesus said to the Apostles. Jesus said,"whose sins you forgive are forgiven, but whose sins you retain are retained". Even St. Pio, when he was hearing confessions, did not absolve some people's sins because their confessions were not complete and he knew it. He would tell them to come back when they could be completely sorry for their sins and have changed their ways. Yes, we know that Jesus is merciful, however, he is going to go by what the priest does because this is a Sacrament instituted by Christ Himself. Christ was not just talking to hear Himself speak, he gave the Apostles the "Power" to be His representatives on Earth. The Key of Heaven was given to the Apostle Peter, therefore the Power flows from there and continues to this day ....

   Posted By: H. West

10. ""clergy pedophile offences so deadly that they require forgiveness from the Pope himself""
    
    God Grief and I thought only God forgave sins and for me there should be no forgiveness for these evil creatures that abused children for decades. They should not be allowed to even ask for forgiveness when the crime was so carefully planned and carried out.
    
    

    Posted By: Noel1

11. B Slager, in most dioceses, the faculty to absolve someone of the sin of abortion is given by the Bishop to every priest. You can check if this is the case in your diocese by contacting the chancery. I shall pray for you.
    
    It is always God who forgives sins, but given that we are human, God in His infinite mercy became man, and chose to institute priests so that we could receive our forgiveness at first hand so to speak. I have always thought that if Confession wasn't a sacrament, it would have been a sacramental. (One might also point to therapy as illustrating similar things).
    
    
    There are sins which are reserved to the Holy See, or to the local Bishops, due to the gravity of the Sin involved.
    
    Noel1, very good of you to express your opinions. Say, you don't happen to be the Second Coming, do you? Or God the Father?

    Posted By: Adeodatus

12. Thank God the church is coming down on things like abortion. It needs to do just that starting with the Cardinals Arch Bishops, Bishops and Priest. They must all be on the same page. Because a man is wealthy or is higher ranking in life such as a politicians, they must still be told it is a mortal sin to abort a baby. They must never receive the Blessed Sacrament with a mortal sin on their soul. I don't care how much they give the church in money or political favours. IT IS WRONG. In my heart I feel that we have too many leaders who go with the flow, afraid of hurting the pocketbook! Confession has become a thing of the past. Everyone goes to Holy Communion and no one confesses. I guess people just don't sin any more!! Just listen to the news or read the paper or just ride down the street. It is scary and we are going to have to answer for it. We put more emphasis on shaking hands and moving Jesus from the centre of the altar to sometimes a room by Himself. We have come a long way since the 60's

    Posted By: Al

13. Dear B Slager, you do not need to do anything else, other than live a holy life as we all must do. Unlike civil law, ignorance of canon law IS an excuse. If you did not realise that procuring an abortion causes excommunication, it does not apply to you.
    
    (Noel1) "there should be no forgiveness for these evil creatures that abused children for decades. They should not be allowed to even ask for forgiveness".
    
    I hope for your sake that you have never said the Lord's Prayer, Noel. Because if you did, you asked God to show the same lack of mercy to you for your sins against Him, as you show to others.
    
    

    Posted By: Ronk

14. The culture of death is not only present in the act of the intent to kill an innocent person through abortion, but the intent to kill God's Creation through acceptance of perverse sexuality and the destruction of the manhood of man and womanhood of woman. Homosexuality surely is an end to life as God intended.Only the union of one man and one woman as in Adam and Eve, is the Godly institution of life....pure life. When they sinned then all hell broke loose. Let us go back to our origins and say Yes to God.
    Alba , Boston

    Posted By: Alba

15. Gavin o'Brien, surely you jest when you say 'Jesus did not directly start the Church"??? Ever heard the phrase, "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church."
    People love to say Jesus didn't start the Church to justify themselves straying from Church teaching, like it isn't guided by the Holy Spirit, or protected by Christ Himself, as he actually said he will be with it till the end of time and "the gates of hell" won't prevail against it.
    

    Posted By: anthony

16. Gavin O'Brien
    
    Reading your response I am glad that you taught me Geography at school rather than Religious Education.

    Posted By: Son of Trypho

17. I knew our uni courses had been "dumbed down", but I'm stunned that it's apparently possible to get a Masters in Theology despite being totally ignorant that Christ founded the Church (eg Matt 16:18), gave the Apostles and their successors the power to excommunicate just as the Jewish chief priests had had (eg Matt 18:17-18), and to administer the sacrament of Confession (eg John 20:23-26) including choosing whether to absolve or retain any sin.
    
    You do mean CATHOLIC theology Gavin??
    Please tell me that you have not been teaching Catholic school students that "Christ did not directly start the Church"!! If you believe this, why do you even care a fig about Catholicism?
    
    And by the way it's bad form to repeatedly boast about how much education you've got.

    Posted By: Ronk

18. Ronk good to see you back, but get off your soap box Man. God forgives all sinners who repent. Don’t attempt to downgrade the value of Confession. Why don’t you start justifying this hatred you seem possessed with by quoting parts of the Gospels where God the Son condemns paedophiles to hell - if you can find any. Edward J.

    Posted By: Edward J.

19. Ronk,
    Noel1) "there should be no forgiveness for these evil creatures that abused children for decades. They should not be allowed to even ask for forgiveness".
    
    I hope for your sake that you have never said the Lord's Prayer, Noel. Because if you did, you asked God to show the same lack of mercy to you for your sins against Him, as you show to others.
    
    If I committed these sins that are listed above I would not even walk into a church and ask forgiveness. These people do not uphold their beliefs and therefore do not practise their faith.
    
    Abortion, sexual abuse and using the Eucharistic host in Satanic rites do not come into my faith beliefs .
    Abortion is an issue I prefer not to get into because it gets nasty but the other two issues here are vile. When one commits these crimes, one becomes an outcast and as far as I was taught you had to be sorry for your sins. If you are abusing a child over an extended period how can you attend reconciliation when you know you are going to keep doing the same thing over and over? These things are not one off things.
    
    H W wrote
    Even St. Pio, when he was hearing confessions, did not absolve some people's sins because their confessions were not complete and he knew it. "

    Posted By: Noel1

20. So...if the Pope and several of the past popes???? have been teaching heretical positions........we or good Catholic priests should not speak ill nor condemn them?? I am a Roman Catholic, however Christ said not to follow man and there is no such thing as blind obedience except by the papal worshippers.....Saint JPII the Great? NOT

    Posted By: Michael

21. B. Slager,
    
    A person who procures an abortion incurs a latae sententiae excommunication (Code of Canon Law, canon 1398), which means excommunication is incurred automatically upon the commission of an offence. (Canon 1312). In the case of excommunication attached to an offence, accomplices, even though not mentioned in the law or precept, incur the same penalty if, without their assistance, the crime would not have been committed and if the penalty is of such a nature as to be able to affect them. (Canon 1329, 2). This includes - the mother of the child, except if she is not responsible - for instance, under constraint or grievous fear (Cf. canon 1323). Also relatives who have influenced her expressly directly in favour of the abortion, for instance her parents, the father of the child etc. and all those accomplices without whom the abortion would not have taken place, i.e. surgeon, nurses etc.
    
    The Council of Trent authorises bishops to absolve their own subjects in their own dioceses from all excommunications, consequently from those reserved to the Holy See, only in specific cases. Bishops can exercise this power either in person or through a special delegate of their choice, but in the tribunal of penance only. Therefore, just as Adeodatus says, excommunication incurred through abortion, can only be absolved in the confessional, by a priest with the necessary authority from the diocesan Bishop.
    
    Confession is a sacrament instituted by Jesus Christ, very clearly in Matthew 18:18, and, John 20:21. Jesus Christ gave his Apostles and their lawful successors, power and authority to absolve from all sin those who sincerely repent of their offences. The duty to give or withhold the forgiveness of sins, as His representatives, is just as clearly stated as the duty to preach the Gospel. Since, however, it was manifestly impossible for the first Apostles themselves to go into all the world and bring the glad tidings to everyone, it cannot be supposed that the duty and the power of hearing confessions and giving absolution was limited to those men only, and that so marvelous a source of grace and mercy should be closed with the completion of the Apostles lives. Hence this power was communicated to their lawful successors.
    
    Confession therefore, is the sacrament in which actual sins are forgiven, by the ministry of the priest. The eternal punishment due to mortal sin is wiped away, and also a part or all of the temporal punishment, according to the disposition of the penitent. God gives us back sanctifying grace and all the merits we had obtained before falling into mortal sin. Regardless of the gravity and frequency of the sin, what has been sincerely confessed is wiped away through sacramental absolution by the priest. The priest is there in persona Christi, i.e as a representative of Christ.
    
    Let no one say to me, says St. Augustine, "I will do penance in my heart, I confess all my sins to God and to God alone, who was present when I committed sin. It is He who must forgive me. Then in vain was it said to the apostles, "Whose sins you shall forgive they are forgiven them, and whose sins you shall retain they are retained!"
    
    Just as no one is foolish enough to say that he will send his Children to God alone instead of sending them to the priest for baptism, like wise let no one be foolish enough to say he will go directly to God alone for the forgiveness of sin; for as original sin is wiped out only by means of the sacrament of baptism, so is actual sin wiped out only by means of the sacrament of penance. It is precisely in this that the infinte and incomprehensible depths of God's Mercy consist. Those who despise and ignore this great source of Mercy will eternally regret.
    
    Frequent confession is very much encouraged by the Church, but must be done with great purity of intention.
    
    5 steps for a good confession:
    
    1. Examine your conscience.
    2. Be sincerely sorry for your sins.
    3. Resolve to amend your life.
    4. Confess your sins.
    5. After your confession, do the penance given by the priest
    
    We must be aware of the gravity and the number of our sins, and if they were committed in thoughts, words, deeds or by omission. We must tell all our sins (all our mortal sins, at least) to a priest, their kind and the number of times we have committed each one. Contrition is a key requirement for forgiveness. Also, we must resolve not only to avoid sin but also the persons, places and things that may easily lead us to sin. Therefore, sins that have already been confessed need not be confessed again, unless the confession was badly made.
    
    The priest gives us a penance that we may make some atonement to God for our sins, receive help to avoid them in the future and make some satisfaction for the temporal punishment due to them. Satisfaction is the voluntary acceptance by the penitent of the penance given by the Priest. Normally, satisfaction would take the form of prayers or acts of charity or other good works. For abortion, good works would be active involvement in pro-life activities, or supporting an orphanage, or adopting an abandoned baby. The aim is to remit, in whole or in part, the debt of temporal punishment which often remains after the sin has been forgiven. Any person who deliberately neglects or refuses to make the satisfaction imposed fails to receive the sacrament validly.
    
    Finally, contrary to what many think, ignorance is not, and has never been, a means of salvation. For, whosoever have sinned without the law, shall perish without the law (Rom. ii. 12). This means that, those who do not know anything of the Christian moral Law, such as Heathens, will perish on account of the great sins which they committed against the voice of God speaking to them by their conscience. The same must be said of those Christians who are inculpably ignorant of the Catholic religion, but sin grievously against their conscience. Moreover, Christians cannot dare claim ignorance as regards moral Law.

    Posted By: lobengula

22. Why is abortion a more serious sin than murdering a newly born baby, a young child, or even an adult?

    Posted By: JohnS

23. I would like to reply to IAN FAIWEATHER's comment,
    In the comment he states he/she says
    
    I always believed that it was God who forgave sins. Then kinda sarcastically he states "Now it seems that there are sins that not even God can forgive, it will take the Pope.
    
    MY REPLY is :
    Many people's rebellion is a result of their own lack of scriptural knowledge. Their own lack of taking time to review what God has said in his beloved son. In this case the scripture tells us.
    This is said to peter and the apostles after the reserection........Jn 20: 22-23 ...And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the holy Spirit.
    Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained."
    
    The Pope is on the Seat of Peter . So any rebellion you may have is really against the Holy Spirit because he breathed the power of the Holy Spirit upon them and They / Peter and the Apostles/ received the power to forgive sins............ Repent of this rebelion brother and give yourself into the loving hands that yearn to forgive.

    Posted By: Sam Giovannucci

24. There are certain sins which harm the Church as a society and as such are classified as canonical crimes. Every canoncial crime is a mortal sin, BUT NOT every mortal sin is a crime. For one to incur the penalty of excommunication for a crime, then one needs to know that this particular act is a crime punishable with excommunication. To B. SLAGER, since you didn't know that the sin of abortion was also a canonical crime punishable by excommuncication, then you did not incur the penalty canon 1321, you lacked 'imputability'.
    Grace builds on nature and does not destroy it. God gave the apostles the authority to govern the Church as a whole and in its members. The nature of the Church is social, and what harms the individual harms the whole Body of Christ. Excommunication identifies the wound. It needs to be cleaned up (censure lifted) before it is healed (sin absolved). For undeclared penalties of excommunication, the confessor may remit the censure by virtue of canon 1357 for the salvation of the soul, qua in Ecclesia suprema semper lex debet esse- and IS.

    Posted By: Becket

25. I would highly recommend that you read the Catechism of the Catholic church, especially Article 4 which addresses the whole issue of The Sacrament of Penance and Reconciliation. It is here you will all receive the appropriate understanding and answers to the Catholic faith.

    Posted By: Maggie

26. So if the pope commits any of these sins, who does he confess to? This sounds messed up for sure. I think the Vatican is just as confused as the people who say the Vatican is right, even though they change their minds about their own teachings once every 20 years or so..How can you believe a teaching that says babies that die before baptisim go to hell, then change the rules to say no they go straight to heaven? What can you belive from the vatican???? There is one book and one teaching that christians should only follow, and that is the Holy Bible....

    Posted By: Hi

27. Edward J, I have no idea what you’re talking about. Perhaps your comment is directed to Noel1? I certainly completely endorse that “God forgives all sinners who repent” and have never suggested otherwise, and would never “downgrade the value of Confession”, express “hatred” or claim that “God the Son condemns paedophiles to hell”.
    
    Michael, it is impossible for any pope to “teach heretical positions”.
    
    Hi, you are misinformed. The Church has never taught either that “babies that die before baptisim go to hell” nor that “they go straight to heaven”.
    
    The Pope can and certainly does confess his sins, no matter how grievous, to any other priest and receives absolution from him, just like any other Catholic.
    
    John S, Objectively, all other things being equal, abortion may be no more serious than killing without warning an innocent adult who poses no threat and who has no opportunity to defend himself. Though some would say that at least the adult is a sinner and has had experienced some years of life to grow to maturity and to be allowed to make choices in life for good or evil. (Yet ironically abortionists call themselves “pro-choice”!)
    
    But canonical excommunication is about more than just saying that something is a serious sin. It’s about the best way of dealing with the problem in context of culture and human nature etc. Unfortunately abortion often is legal under civil law and is easily concealable, and there are enormous pressures on otherwise good people to consent to or facilitate abortion. The excommunication canon is a way to help the faithful deal with these problems and help save the lives of the babies.
    

    Posted By: Ronk

28. The point about the sins and confessing to the Pope is that some sins grievously wound the Church. In the early Church, for most sins, the penalty was quite serious, and lasted several months. Over the centuries, the Church's discipline has become less rigorous (and perhaps rightly so), but for certain sins either because of who is offended, or because of the gravity of the crime, a modicum of the rigour remains. This is expressed by limitations placed on the faculty to absolve certain sins. Note that the list of such sins can and have changed. Abortion was added towards the end of the 17th century. Until recently, (though I speak under correction) I think assault on priests and Bishops used to be included.
    
    If the Pope were to commit one of these sins, then he would confess to one of his confessors. So far as we know, this has never occurred. There is no contradiction there. And don't worry, the Pope is also bound by the necessity to confess to another person, which was imposed by God.
    
    Michael, I fail to see your point. "Offences against the person of the Pope" (though I am willing to be corrected on this) effectively mean [physical] assault committed on the Pope.
    
    Noel, it doesn't become us to place limits on what is possible through God's Grace.
    
    Hi, there has been no such change as that you mention. What the Church authoritatively taught still remains authoritative, and what is not is still not so taught.

    Posted By: Adeodatus

29. One of the biggest problems for some Catholics is that they do not know their faith well enough to discuss it with others. The Catechism of the Catholic Church is the best source of information, as someone here already suggested. But to Hi, the Church has never officially stated that unbaptised babies go to hell, or that they now go to heaven. The most recent document on this matter (2008) reinforces what the Catechism stated, that 'they are left to God's mercy.' What do you think his mercy would do?

    Posted By: Markodan

30. If and or when this situation is resolved, I hope Cardinal Law lines up for his turn. Having known what went on while Archbishop of Boston, is there anything about culpability or criminal negligence involved in such a situation?

    Posted By: paul

31. This is another "sick" undertaking by the individuals who have gone back to wearing lace and imagining themselves to be "little gods" rather than believing that once a sin is confessed and sorrow felt, a sin is wiped away and forgiven. Please ... let the One True God be exactly that ..... The True and Forgiving God!

    Posted By: Urban

32. I am sorry, I do not understand why abortion is an "ultimate sin" and those involved in it are excommunicated, while if the child is murdered sometime after it is born, then no automatic excommunication applies! Have I missed something?

    Posted By: Chris

33. Chris, as I said, canonical excommunication is about more than just saying that something is a serious sin. It’s about the best way of dealing with the problem in context of culture and human nature etc. Unfortunately abortion often is legal under civil law and is easily concealable, and there are enormous pressures on otherwise good people to consent to or facilitate abortion. The excommunication canon is a way to help the faithful deal with these problems and help save the lives of the babies.
    
    ANY wilful murder is a mortal sin, and the murderer is barred from Holy Communion unless and until he truly repents, contritely confesses his sin with a firm purpose of amendment and to do whatever possible to make restitution, does penance and receives absolution. Any penance or suffering for his sin which he does not suffer in this life, he will, even if he is saved, suffer in Purgatory.

    Posted By: Ronk

34. 
    Has anyone posting on this thread, pro or con, actually read the article? The following is from paragraph 1: "For the first time Vatican officials will this week discuss in public sins committed by clergy considered so deadly that they require forgiveness from the Pope himself."
    
    I fail to see how the matter could be expressed more clearly. The sins listed are reserved to the Pope for forgiveness WHEN THEY ARE COMMITTED BY CLERGYMEN. Unless all respondents to this article are clergymen, I suggest that everyone go back to American Idol or Law and Order, where failure to pay attention is a godsend.

    Posted By: Paul Claudel

35. Mr Claudel, as I alluded in my first comment, the article is hopelessly confused about the facts. We're commenting on the reality, not the distortions in the article.
    Do you really think abortion, using the Eucharistic host in Satanic rites, violation of the confessional, and offences against the person of the Pope, do NOT incur excommunication if done by a layman?
    Do you really think that the instances of CLERGY procuring abortions, using the Eucharistic host in Satanic rites, committing pedophile offences, violating the confessional, and attacking the person of the Pope, are "on the increase"?

    Posted By: Ronk

36. Ronk's comment is stupefying. It amounts to "Let's talk at length when we don't know what precisely we're talking about." As hypothetical piles on hypothetical, examples of sanctimony and speculation multiply like microbes. Thus the neocatholic spirit of Vatican II in a nutshell.

    Posted By: paul claudel

37. What if the Bishop of Rome commits a sin so deadly that only the bishop of Rome could "forgive" (only God forgives....is the Bp of Rome God? Holy Father!)....does the bishop of Rome therefore "forgive" himself? If not, who does?

    Posted By: Francis,

38. Mr Claudel, I find your comment stupefying. I (and apparently the majority of other commenters here) are well aware what are the sins which incur latae sententiae excommunication reserved to the Holy See, and I'm sure the Church would take steps to inform us (other than this rather silly article) if there were any change in the Code of Canon Law to change this. These hard objective facts (not speculation or hypotheticals, much less sanctimoniousness or "the neocatholic spirit" whatever that is) are what we are commenting on. Not the muddled article.

    Posted By: Ronk

39. Francis, just as the Holy Spirit protects the pope from teaching error, so no doubt He protects the pope from ever committing a sin which incurs latae sententiae excommunication. (See above for your and the Times' silly confusion of forgiveness with lifting of excommunication). Because inter alia it would be absurd because "excommunication" means being out of communion with the body of people who are in communion with the pope, so if a pope could be "excommunicated", it would in fact be every OTHER Catholic who was excommunicated from HIM.

    Posted By: Ronk

40. Ronk, your reply is sheer unadulterated B...S...! Where do you get this rubbish from. I'm sure you just pluck it out of thin air. When you look at some of the teachings of various popes I doubt if the Holy Spirit would be too impressed. What, then, do you mean by papal teaching....is everything a pope writes protected from error? Are all the papal Bulls, encyclicals etc say for the past 1000 years protected from error? What sins incur latae sententiae excommunication? What about ferendae sententiae excommunication? You've ignored that one.
    
    Then you mention my and the Times silly confusion of forgiveness with lifting excommunication.....where did I state that they were the same? Please direct me to my statement so that I may correct it if that is what I said? For the record I do not believe that any pope or priest can forgive....absolve, yes; forgive, no!
    
    Your final comment is nonsense....throughout history there have been many debates about what to do with heretical popes. the common consensus seems to be that if a pope were to be excommunicated then none of us are in communion with him because he would cease to be bishop of rome and we would not, automatically, be excommunicated. My communion is with Christ and the Church not with the Bishop of rome some of whom, throughout history, no one with any decency could have been in communion with!

    Posted By: Francis

41. Buried away in these comments, is the sensible question of JohnS.
    'Why is a abortion one of the 'five ultimate crimes' but not killing of a new-born baby or infant or child or teenager or adult'?
    Also that lists suggests, it is an ultimate crime to sexually abuse a child.....but killing a child is not on there.
    And 'offences against the person of the Pope'. I would expect that offences against any person are serious.
    
    

    Posted By: Marie H

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