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1. In my experience of supporting Catholic friends post-abuse, I know the hierarchical church has no heart at all, to them it is just a huge PR exercise.
   
   The sad part is, this is not a Christian way, and most people will agree it is not a human way. The way the Sexual Abuse cases were taken with not only great hostility, but with great indifference... many members of the church and hierarchy are still unremorseful and in fact more militant than ever in their striving to 'defend the church'- as in the building, the properties, the power, the prestige, the Status Quo, not the people of God (the church in actuality).
   
   A sad sad tragedy of our times.

   Posted By: TJ Lawson

2. People should read Bishop Geoffrey Robinson's
   "Confronting Power and Sex in the Catholic Church: Reclaiming the Spirit of Jesus."
   
   It is an excellent read and it addresses these issues very comprehensively.

   Posted By: TJ Lawson

3. Abuse is a tragedy, a monster, with life-long damage to personality and relationships. However, what can money do? Counselling is available in church and government. I really tire of victims of abuse by clergy or orphanages demanding money with or without menaces. What about victims of sexual and emotional destruction within that most trusted place, the family home? That is the silent agony that at least ten per cent of all people suffer, with no compensation. But again, what could money do? Put your sorrow aside, seek a loving God and live anew in his care.

   Posted By: "Margaret"

4. In the interest of balance, I offer this excerpt from ABC News' report of the same story:
   
   
   Helen Last is the director of victims group In Good Faith. She wants the Victorian Government to review the cases.
   
   "The Commission in Melbourne has 12 years of files of very serious criminal behaviour and those things are not appropriate to be held in one commissioner's filing system," Ms Last said.
   
   "We want the Government to explore those files. It's time for all those records, and those histories and files on those clerical sexual predators, to be summoned by the appropriate and relevant authorities."
   
   Ms Last says the Church's investigator puts little emphasis on taking complaints to the police.
   
   "He certainly does not on every occasion reinforce to them their need and right to go to the sexual offences squad. They are not encouraged or assisted in general to go and get legal advice from an independent lawyer," she said.
   
   Source:
   http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/08/11/2651915.htm
   

   Posted By: AJ

5. One can find no more compelling evidence of the compassionate and caring Dennis Hart than his verbal response to the abused woman.
   The fragilty and vulnerability of the victim would appear to have been underscored and re-inforced by our Church and its minions .

   Posted By: Helen McFarlane

6. This report from "the Age" is astonishing in what is reveals about incompatible logic and distorted thinking in the bureaucracy of contemporary Australian Catholicism.
   
   Take, for example, Archbishop Hart's coy observation, "The [Melbourne] scheme has attracted no significant criticism from the vast majority of victims it has compensated." How is that to be understood? what proportion of complainants has it NOT "compensated" and how many of them have complained? What, indeed, does he mean by "Significant" criticism -- I've certainly heard serious criticism of what have been described as "Star Chamber" conditions of inquisition. What, too, of the minority which, by implication, it has not compensated? Have they not criticised? Is this not significant?
   
   The other aspect which is not mentioned is that, on account of the hostility of the previous Archbishop (Dr Pell) to the "Towards Healing" program which was adopted elsewhere in Australia, the Melbourne arrangements remain unique here yet only recently Cardinal Pell proclaimed that the reason why nothing has occurred in Australia like the scandals which, of late, have beset the Irish church, is the existence of "Towards Healing" and its work.
   
   In addition, one's scepticism about Melbourne and the "compassion of its ecclesial leadership, is tempered by a little reality when one reads the comments (whether made under provocation or not is entirely irrelevant) of Archbishop Hart to the victim: "Go to hell, bitch" and lest we think that (despite being sworn testimony in court) that to be hyperbole, there is the further detail in today's report in "The Sydney Morning Herald" of the claim by the Archbishop's lawyer that "the victim's abuse was not a relevant factor in the intervention order" [to which the victim had, on the Archbishop's initiative] been subjected. Is that the attitude of a compassionate archdiocese or restorative system. The abuse by the priest seems, in the diocesan mind, to have become a very secondary matter indeed. Furthermore, was it not this very same Archbishop Hart who forewarned the said abusive priest, Fr Barry Whelan, that he was under police surveillance and would soon be raided, allowing him to deal with the contents of his computer memory?
   
   It can all be summarised as gross abuse of sacerdotal power; of bishops still deluded by old thinking that they are mediaeval princes with power and authority which should never -- in matters serious or trivial -- be challenged by the "faithful" or the secular state.
   
   Dr JJ Carmody.

   Posted By: Dr John CARMODY

7. The ELEPHANT in the room of Sexual Abuse is our society will not investigate the family where most of the abuse occurs.
   Why are we so frightened????
   Because it is much more common than we want to admit.
   It would tell us something about ourselves which we rightly would be horrified by.
   We need to make sure society is not making the Church a scapegoat for its own lack of integrity.
   The church must own its own sin, but so should everyone else, especially the family unit!

   Posted By: davidanthony davies

8. 1.20 am in the morning? I suspect many people would have some sympathy for the Archbishop's very human reaction.
   Such behaviour is usually considered harrassment.
   There is no need to disturb people at ungodly hours or to be vandalistic and throw stones at windows.
   This woman obviously needed counselling to help her cope with her feelings of frustration and anger.

   Posted By: Disturbance of the peace

9. Well even when provoked telling a victim for abuse to "Go to hell, bitch" is an original expression of compassion. There is obviously something quite wrong in the clerical culture of the leadership of the Melbourne church from this, the comments of the auxiliary bishop and an abusive priest being held up as a living treasure.

   Posted By: Grego

10. It's the use of the word 'bitch' more than anything else that will revulse Catholics and others everywhere in regard to the 'go to hell' comments of Archbishop Hart.
    
    Times were when the early church allowed the laity a say in the choice of its leaders. We're still paying the price for that reversal...the continued degrading of its womenfolk. Worse, this very weekend marks one of the church's key feasts honouring womanhood..the Assumption of the Virgin Mary into heaven.
    
    I hope the archbishop "recalls" that and uses the occasion for a public apology to womankind in general....or considers standing down from his post.

    Posted By: Brian Haill

11. If the report is true, I have to confess, the behaviour of the Archbishop is absolutely outrageous. His sudden inability to recall his exact words is a cop out.

    Posted By: Kyle

12. Sadly it seems that Church leaders, in common with too many of our political leaders, suffer from conveniently timed attacks of amnesia.

    Posted By: David

13. The Age knows that bringing up dirt against the Catholic Church will increase its circulation no matter how old the story, I guess those in the age are holier than thou and have never wronged.
    Perhaps the Bishop is just normal in his respose to a nasty incident. If this had occurred to me the person would have go more than just a few words..

    Posted By: Mark

14. In practice, the Melbourne Response completely failed my late brother after accepting that he had been abused.
    The staff supposedly treating him comented that "Some victims just get over it (the abuse) and get on with their lives, others succumb to alcohol and other problems". Thus they blamed the victim for his suffering.
    At another point he was asked "Did you ever shit blood?" (from a transcript!) - what sort of a compassionate counselling service is that? His explicit request for good counselling did not appear to ever get any response.
    The Melbourne Response needs independent, detailed and thorough investigation.

    Posted By: Jim Boyle

15. Rather than scrapping The Melbourne Response why not improve it by making sure ongoing compassionate counselling and an ongoing medical support is provided to help people heal including healing retreats with religious with empathy and training in post-traumatic stress syndrome?
    Sometimes having victim and alleged abuser meet face to face in the presence of a skilled psychiatrist can help to allow the genuine victim to regain a sense of empowerment since a skilled psychiatrist can expose and prevent manipulative behaviour and facilitate dialogue that can help abusers in denial to face and admit their behaviour was wrong.
    

    Posted By: Don't scrap the Melbourne system improve it.

16. Pardon my ignorance, I'm from overseas. But one of the thing I don't get it here in Australia, why are people suing the Church for damages done by priests? Is it just for the money? If I were sexually abused by a Telstra employee can I sue Telstra for damages? I'd be laughed at for sure. And also the Church teaches chastity in priesthood, the exact opposite of what some priests have done. Where is the connection? Why does the whole Church have to suffer?

    Posted By: Malleus

17. You want to see things get done properly and justly and compassionately: then perhaps these organisations should be run or at least be advised by those who have been abused - then we might see some Christian justice.
    
    Honestly, unless one has been through abuse and its effects they simply cannot appreciate what it means and how it impacts in every possible way on a person's life and faith, especially when it has happened in the context of the church.
    
    I noted that the bishop of Maitland/Newcastle is trying to include abuse survivors in his set up - thank God there are some people out there with common sense and real Christian attitudes.
    
    I would also like to direct people to Senator Helen Kroger's speech to the senate on Wednesday, 13 May 2009 about Child Abuse and its effects (see link below) - for those who still don't GET IT it is a good objective read.
    
    OYWT
    
    http://www.asca.org.au/associations/8549/files/2009-05-13%20MATTERS%20OF%20PUBLIC%20INTEREST%20child%20abuse.pdf
    

    Posted By: Oh Yet We Trust

18. This angst will continue and deepen if healing of the Church hierarchy is not addressed first, to facilitate a change of attitude and reaction. At the same time, archbishops are not saints and can be expected to react humanly and fiercely to aggressive attacks on them and their homes in the middle of the night.
    
    If these men have a deep-seated reason for their lack of compassion, address that. And abusing clergy need to have their own pathologies treated rather than bypassed by the Church.
    
    Counselling of abuse victims, whether by Church, the Health sector or privately engaged professionals is evidently not effective in many cases. From my own experience and study this would seem to stem from the current use of Behaviourist therapies, which artificially try to change the thinking of clients, without sufficiently addressing, and giving permission for expression of, deep hurts and emotions. Icing a mouldy cake will not succeed for very long.
    
    Calling on earlier therapies including Gestalt and bodywork will allow expression of anger and a working through of this and other damaged inner child emotions. Combined with gentle healing strategies that focus on body and mind and spirit, and especially tapping into the person's own spirituality, whether religious or other, will go a lot further to restoring their humanity, and ultimately to peace and reunion with their loving God.

    Posted By: Marjorie

19. "Margaret", people like you are the exact reason why the church is in the rut we're in. We do not have the right to dictate to victims of our crimes (yes, Ours- we are all members of this Catholic community that has perpetrated violence on our own fellow sisters and brothers, it happened under our watch through our leadership that we are also responsible for), how and by what means we receive pardon, we forfeited that right when we as a church failed again and again and again. And we’ve allowed the hierarchy to get away with it, again and again and again.
    
    “Margaret”, I pray that your loved ones have not gone through what Victims of these Abuses have gone through, because your response is part of their trauma.

    Posted By: TJ Lawson

20. We are so lucky "Jesus" loves us all around the clock..He has never been known to say "come back during business hours". Is it a job or a Vocation?

    Posted By: john M Costigan

21. All the more reason for the September 1 initiative as it is the only available appropriate response there is http://www.september12009.com/

    Posted By: JohnB

22. The treatment of your brother was wrong and it must be a source of sorrow for you.Every time we fail in our Christian compassion we each do terrible harm.I will pray for consolation for you and yours

    Posted By: Response to Jim Boyle

23. Helen Last is not an objective person in all of this. She was removed from a position of involvement in the Church's early response to the emerging clerical abuse revelations. She has an axe to grind that is personal and very personal against Archbishop Hart as he was the man who had the task to dismiss her. Her own agenda I would suggest is revenge!

    Posted By: Thomas Black

24. Good on the Archbishop for his response to this woman’s vendetta of intimidation and bullying. He’s only human. It would be hard to find a gentler, kinder man than Archbishop Hart. The words he used under the most extreme provocation are words to which (sadly) even young children are constantly exposed (and use themselves) in the media, bumper stickers etc. Those sanctimoniously and priggishly condemning the archbishop for using them, would themselves have spoken far more strongly in the same circumstances, and probably retaliated in kind to her physical violence as well.
    
    This (ahem) person had made credible death threats to the Archbishop and stoned his house. Yet the magistrate described her acts as “understandable” and his (by 21st century standards rather quaint) words in response as “appalling abuse”!
    
    And remember that the very worst act of “abuse” which the priest had done to her son was to touch him on the chest. An act which would have been laughed off by the police and judiciary if the offender was a layman. It did appear that the homosexual priest was “grooming” her son for possible future abuse. But in this country we don’t punish people for what we think they are going to do in future. Unless it’s a priest I suppose.
    
    Dear Dr Carmody, your claim that “the Melbourne arrangements” are unique because of “ the hostility of the previous Archbishop (Dr Pell) to the "Towards Healing" program which was adopted elsewhere in Australia” is incorrect.
    
    The Melbourne Response protocol PRE-DATES Towards Healing. Victims’ groups have described the Melbourne Response as superior to Towards Healing in its treatment of victims and alleged victims. Helen Last and her “victim’s group” are new on the scene.
    
    The Fairfax/ABC campaign against Archbishop Hart is eerily similar to their campaign against Cardinal Pell and Bishop Fisher immediately before and during World Youth Day. The same modus operandi, dragging up years-old cases which have long been settled, the same misrepresentations, sensationalism and bigotry. Are they afraid that the Melbourne Archdiocese is becoming too effective in spreading the Gospel among young people as Sydney is doing?
    
    The tragic thing is that these sensationalist stories about borderline “abuse” by ex-priests trivialises the horrific experiences of those suffering substantial sexual abuse.
    

    Posted By: Peter G

25. Every Catholic could set aside some prayer time to ask for healing graces for all affected by abuse.
    It is a grevious wound on the mystical body of Christ and it is a good thing that light is being shed on it because a wound that is not treated poisons the whole body.
    For anyone hurt by abuse and full of anger and a sense of betrayal that has led them to lose their faith, I ask them to remember that no-one escapes Divine Justice and God reads the heart.
    Jesus said "Woe to those who scandalise my little ones"
    My prayer for every victim is that they remember how much Jesus loves them and that those who hurt them were serving the devil not Jesus who asks us to love with pure unselfish hearts.
    It is my hope that the Church will continue to support victims with long term counselling and living skill support but not large cash settlements because money cannot mend broken hearts, wounded souls and hopes and dreams interrupted.
    Patient empathetic listening, the administering of the healing oils of the sacrament of the sick, a social worker to help the victim re-engage with life in a positive way-these are some of the possible strategies that would help rebuild shattered lives
    
    
    
    

    Posted By: Healing power of God's Love

26. Malleus, maybe you need to understand the context of the abuse and the context of this culture before you make any more comments; our way of reparative justice perhaps is different from yours.

    Posted By: TJ Lawson

27. Malleus we all must suffer because our individual sin, even when hidden, damages the Body of Christ.The abuses that took place were like hidden wounds that because they were not exposed became a poisonous infection.The Truth needed to come out and we all needed to learn from these scandals to pray more for our religious; to be more alert and vigilant in our observation of children.
    I believe Cardinal Pell was very wise in his approach to this issue but we can improve things by making more use of healing prayers and life skills support for victims.

    Posted By: Response to Malleus

28. Archbishop Hart is a good, sincere and deeply spiritual man of high integrity. His alleged words were actually reasonable when the woman kept ringing his doorbell at 1.20 AM in the middle of the night, especially as she had already said she wanted to kill him, and had thrown stones at his window.
    
    The court process came to the WRONG conclusion - it was the woman’s bad behaviour towards the Archbishop that was appalling, rather than what he said to her, and the woman should have apologised to the Archbishop. Whatever injustice may have been done to her by somebody else, does not ever justify her threatening and harassing anybody.
    
    Many readers are insensitively severe towards Denis Hart, and are just focussing on a couple of words that they might have used themselves if they were alarmed and with the major stress that he has. The 1.20 am incident is a separate situation, and not reflective of Denis Hart’s true attitude to those who have suffered, because as he says: “It just tears at my soul” and there is no reason to doubt his integrity in saying that.
    
    How many people can remember everything they said 5 years ago, especially when under stress, whether in court or not – most people don’t remember everything they said 5 weeks ago. If our life had been threatened, and we were woken at 1.20 am, and opened our door to see the perpetrator there, we would very strongly tell them to GO AWAY, and the ACTUAL words we would use are not the point.

    Posted By: B. Carlans, 16 Aug 2009

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