Have Your Say 

Recent Comments

1. Another of the many rules made by the hierarchy in the Catholic Church.
   And they wonder why they are not getting men entering into the priesthood and congregations are falling.
   Good on ya, Fr Bob! Least there are still some real priests prepared to speak out... I guess that's why Fr Peter Kennedy is so popular and sadly I guess it is one of the reasons I no longer go to Mass on a Sunday.
   Nothing to do with my faith but just the hypocrisy that is in the Catholic Church.

   Posted By: Brian P Surfers Paradise

2. As the Archbishops says, the funeral Mass is not a celebration of the person’s life. It is about 'commending the deceased person to God'. If you don’t know what that means, it is this; praying for the person’s soul, in case it is in Purgatory. (The person might be in heaven, but don’t take that for granted. If the person is in heaven, the prayers will go to someone who is in Purgatory.)
   You can have the footy songs at the house after the funeral. Here is a webpage with information on ways to help the Holy Souls and also about their intercession for their benefactors: http://missionbell.homestead.com/Afavourgrantedbytheholysouls.html

   Posted By: Mary Ann, Sydney

3. I think Fr Maguire is quite wrong. The object of a Catholic funeral is not to make people 'feel comfortable', but to pray for the release of the departed soul from purgatory.
   If the mourners are only concerned about feeling comfortable, then it suggests that they care only about themselves, and not about the deceased.
   The footy songs and schmaltz can wait till the party afterwards.

   Posted By: Lance Eccles, Goulburn NSW

4. I agree with Archbishop Hart. I hate to hear footy songs at funerals. It is all about praying for the soul of the deceased.
   Fr Maguire has a wrong view of things. We like to think the particular soul goes straight to Heaven, but we are imperfect humans so can't assume that is the case. Pray for souls and leave all the fun stuff for later.

   Posted By: JTF Wodonga, Victoria

5. I wonder if the hysteria from many of the contributors on the Herald Sun site is based on prejudice rather than informed opinion?
   If you were to ask an Iman, a Buddhist monk, a Hindu priest and a Rabbi, I think you would find they would share the opinion of Archbishop Hart re footy songs and pop music at funeral rituals.
   Again, I suggest if you talk to Elders among the Indigenous community of Australia; they would also have protocols about the funeral ritual that would prohibit certain forms of popular music.
   Much as I love the might Cats, there is no way I want to be cremated with their theme song. Rather let my body go and my friends leave the ritual to the poetic and comforting lyrics of Lead Kindly Light by John Henry Newman.

   Posted By: Tony Robertson Brisbane

6. I wish I could protest about the decisions referred to in this article but I know the Church would not care or listen.
   I think that, while commending our loved one to the Lord, we should also be able to celebrate and give thanks for their God-given life. I also believe that the playing of music/songs meaningful to the person departed is a beautiful way to honour their memory.
   God was, and is still, a part of their life and I'm sure he would understand.

   Posted By: Lyn McMillan, Orange NSW 2800.

7. Thank God the hierarchy is reminding us that a Catholic funeral has a sense of proportion.
   Always first comes Jesus Christ. We, his body, celebrate his winning of eternal life for us. Only then do we pray for the deceased and for ourselves. The proper time and place for a eulogy is at the Vigil the night before.

   Posted By: Patrick Austin. Balranald NSW 2715.

8. Most of the Catholics who will complain about this will be Catholics who never darken the door of a church.
   Fr Maguire's comment is predictable. Many catholics will find this unacceptable because they have been listening to Fr. Maguire. I once attended a wedding in his church and had to go for a walk for 3 hours afterwards - ending up in a pub for a double Gin - to get Fr Maguire's theatrics out of my system.
   What Fr Maguire allows to happen in the liturgy gets in the way between the person and God - and all they end up with is themselves. And that's what is happening at many funerals.

   Posted By: Phillip Turnbull Jakarta

9. I would consider it sacrilegous if the Collingwood theme song were not played at my departure from this earth! - Murdoch, WA

   Posted By: Harold Shrigley

10. The edict issued by Melbourne’s Catholic Archbishop Hart to priests and funeral directors that a funeral should not be a “celebration” of a person’s life comes on the heels of a nationwide appeal by the church for millions of dollars from its followers to pay for the cost of celebrating the life of its first Australian saint, Mary MacKillop, (to which the federal government has heavily donated) with her canonization in October.(Footy club songs banned from Catholic funerals”, CathNews.com, 10/9).
    And that’s without even mentioning the musical!
    While canonisations and funerals don’t go hand in hand, and accepting that dignity is also a vital component of a funeral service, this edict simply widens the growing chasm between the hierarchy and its numerically shrinking laity, the Body of Christ.
    It’s the surviving memories, recollections and reminders that helps all mourners to respect, honour and pay tribute to the dead.
    In this climate, one really must wonder how the globally acclaimed Pieta, the breathtakingly haunting statuary representing Mary maternally enfolding her dead son Jesus, whose life the world continues to celebrate, was ever commissioned, yet alone publicly displayed and subsequently replicated, even in the cheapest of plastics.
    

    Posted By: Brian Haill - Melbourne

11. Archbishop Hart is to be commended for stating what Catholic funerals are about.
    Perhaps parishes should spend time teaching as to what a Catholic funeral is about as waiting until the moment of death is somewhat late as a 'teachable moment.'
    We prepare parishioners for sacraments but rarely do we prepare them for death and all it entails. Vigils and wakes can be used to reflect on the life of the deceased but the funeral service itself is a precious moment of commital to God. If families want a more worldly ceremony, perhaps they should consider using a civil celebrant

    Posted By: Mike J. Brisbane

12. When Bl Mary MacKillop died there was a funeral Mass to pray for her soul, not to celebrate her life.
    On October 17, the day of her canonization, we will celebrate her life, and it will be held up as an example to us on how to live. You can have your life celebrated on the day of your canonization (and at the wake).
    Brian, I don’t want to be standing beside you on judgment day, when you give your excuse for not going to Mass.
    By the way you have confused popularity with correct living. They are definitely not the same thing.

    Posted By: Mary Ann, Sydney

13. Well done! We have just found another way to drive people away from the church. Hope Bob's around when my time comes.

    Posted By: mark g brisbane

14. Mary Ann of Sydney: You say (in response to my post) 'Brian, I don't want to be standing next to you on Judgment Day, when you give your excuse for not going to Mass'.
    I made no such admission but you may care to reflect on the fact that the Good Thief never went to Mass - and indeed it hadn't even been invented then - but the Good Lord promised He'd share paradise with him.
    Confusion can be a contagious item, Mary Ann, but rest in the overwhelming generosity of the Lord. Happily, he's not bounded by any human limitations.

    Posted By: Brian Haill - Melbourne

15. As a Catholic organist, I am glad that Archbishop Hart has spoken out.
    In addition to funerals, the same could be said regarding weddings.
    It is a delicate matter and the way I would go about it in a diplomatic way is to say that 'such and such a piece might be a good music and meaningful to them but is not suitable in the context of a liturgy which is Christ centred. One would not sing a hymn or motet during the bridal waltz...

    Posted By: tormus, Sydney

16. There's nothing new in this edict from the Archbishop. I fully understand, and largely agree with, the theology underpinning it. But why be so insistent on conformity?
    Many priests allow departures from the letter of the law out of pastoral sensitivity to the need of the family, and, however much we may hate yet another Leonard Cohen dirge, or Danny Boy or Good Old Whatsitsname Forever.
    At least the family hasn't felt rebuffed or rejected by the representatives of the Church when planning their loved one's funeral. I think a theological argument could be raised for it, too - something to do with the family's belief in the Communion of Saints, the connection of the living and the dead.
    Not at my funeral, please.
    But let's allow our priests some flexibility to deal sensitively with their flock.
    By the way, Mary Anne, I'm not sure why you think Brian would be making his excuses for not going to Mass, but I'm quite sure the question won't be asked anyway. Matthew 25 might help you out here.

    Posted By: Joan Seymour Albion, Vic.

17. What good is it to sing secular thymes for the departed? I bet you they would much rather prayers, for no one is perfect in front of God, if we had just one venial sin, a prayer would make help remove it, but no secular them could ever take the place of a prayer.
    We have become so secular, just like the ancient Egyptians, when they would bring gold and food for their journey into the afterlife. Ridiculous.

    Posted By: Patricia Tullamarine

18. I think that this should be a decision made by the family and the priest of the deceased. And the choice at the music should be something that will make everyone comfortable.
    My grandpa had the Collingwood theme song played at the end of the funeral, and since it was an ex-Collingwood footballer, it was exactly what he wanted, and it was exactly what my family wanted.
    The call should be made by the priest and family.

    Posted By: Ash - Bendigo

19. If people want 'anthems' 'rock music' or whatever, the people can have the funeral in a funeral parlour!

    Posted By: David. Milton.

20. A question to all those who join with Archbishop Hart in opposing the celebration of the deceased's life at their funeral: Have you ever been to a priest's or bishops funeral?
    What do they talk about at the homily? The many parishes he served in; his sayings, the special things he did, the people he helped, even some of the less popular things he did.
    You do not have to choose celebration or commendation. You can blend the two. You can have rosary beads and football colours on the casket pall. People can be of God and of the world. Its a question of balance.
    Remember each is member of God's flock, and Christ would leave all the cathedral congregations for any one of the lost.
    

    Posted By: Martin Nicol Sydney

21. Fr Maguire says that romantic ballads, pop or rock music, political songs, and football club songs are 'Catholic rituals'! He added on ABC radio's PM that these are 'the only rituals we've got'! Could he possibly be any more out of touch with Catholicism?

    Posted By: Peter G Thornleigh

22. What about When the Saints Go Marching In? It is used by a number of football teams these days, yet I think it is very appropriate for a funeral.
    There are a number of other black spirituals, such as Wayfaring Stranger which would also most suitable at a funeral, yet don't fit these guidelines. I really think this stance needs to be re-thought.

    Posted By: Mike Gardiner, Howlong

23. Thank God we still have a few Church leaders who are not worried about popularity or pleasing the greater number and are prepared to speak up and guide us in such matters as the proper attitude and conduct towards death and a Catholic funeral.
    No one likes singing, dancing and telling yarns more than I and now is the time to do this. Funeral time is for reflection and prayer for the soul of the deceased who has now gone to face Reality.
    As in all matters human, who better to Guide and Mother us than the Church?

    Posted By: Paul Lucas - Toowoomba

24. From the early 1970s, the many centuries of unique and uplifting church music and liturgy of the Catholic church were thrown out, to be replaced by rockbands, folk music and crass modern hymns. Rock/Folk masses marked the end of church for this family.
    In spite of all this, if I want to end my funeral service with Louis Armstrong singing 'What a wonderful world' I'm told this is not allowed. So where is the logic? What an ungodly mess.

    Posted By:  MarkAdelaide

25. To our Archbishop I'd say, 'Good on you, Your Grace'.
    I am glad popularity and opinions of a hostile secular press are not part of the cross you carry! Thank you for reminding Catholics that the presense of the Holy of Holies is sacred to us. I join with other readers and say there is a place for everything; rock-and roll,footie songs are better placed at a wake.

    Posted By: Roy.Monash,Vic

26. I was so disappointed to hear of the new ruling. For years our local church has had good liturgy at funerals and been the envy of other denominations.
    Our celebration of life has been to the fore and sometimes a tasteful and a respectful song has been allowed. I can't believe this trivial upset has occured when we have a real problem with smaller congregations and people walking away in droves.
    With respect, Archbishopm please focus on the real issues.

    Posted By: Mary Doran Colac.

27. It is not 'judgmental' to statistically assert that the type of Catholics who insist and pressure priests to include all manner of secular things in such a solemn Catholic ritual as the Requiem Mass are those that demand to be baptised, married, and buried from the
    Catholic Church and are then absent. Their demands demonstrate that they have absolutely no spiritual or theological understanding of the Rite. Furthermore, they are an embarrassment to Catholics who treat the requiem with the respect it deserves. Protestants that have attended such displays of yobbo Catholic culture with me have been left amazed and confused at how tasteless we have become in the last 40 years or so.
    Thanks Archbishop Hart for resisting the lowest common denominator mindset and demanding that Catholics take this rite seriously.
    

    Posted By: Brent Egan Stanmore NSW

28. Seriously, isn't it time that the leaders of our church leaders started to concentrate on what we should be doing to bring people back to the chuch?
    Let's stop being so precious and move forward to keep in step with the current way of life; where has the joy gone ?
    Some things should not be changed such as the sacredness of Mass and the Sacrements, but, playing a song that meant something to the deceased at the end of the service does not impact of the sacredness of our church - it is part of the celebration of that person's life, of what sets them apart.
    

    Posted By: Gerda Endersby Maitland

29. I have read with interest the comments. A couple of things - are we seeing the introduction of a custom (Code of Canon Law cc 23-28) - which can even be 'against the law'? An interesting area of study for liturgical scholars.
    The second - one of the problems is that in a 'time-poor society' everything has to be fitted into our funeral liturgy. No wonder there is tension.
    The other, it is not always helped by seeing on TV news images of music, eulogies etc for a well-known identity - ven in Cathedrals. One can understand the puzzlement of a little family that wants something and is told no!

    Posted By: Fr Peter Slack, Casino, NSW

30. Has anyone actually read these guidelines?
    They can be accessed here:
    http://www.cam.org.au/guidelines/the-archdiocese-of-melbourne-guidelines-for-catholic-funerals.html
    You will see that they are neither insensitive to human sentiment regarding the death of a loved one nor are they disrespectful to the fact that a funeral is a liturgical service. You will also find that many quotes used by the media are completely taken out of context, as usual. Make of that what you will.

    Posted By: Jonathan Hili, Melbourne

31. I support the position taken by Joan Seymour. It seems to me that it is a case for pastoral judgement. I don't think there is a black and white answer to these expressions of faith and life.
    Furthermore it would be good to see the principle of subsidiarity applied in these situations and allow these decisions to be made at the local Parish Level.
    It would certainly free up our Bishops and Archbishops to become involved in the larger issues of injustice - man's inhumanity to man! and the devasting consequences of greed, war, human trafficking and displaced persons. A plea to engage with the larger God who can cross all our human boundaries! and as psalm 40 says 'places a new song on our lips!'

    Posted By: Patty Andrew, Quakers Hill Sydney

• » Advertise in CathNews

Email to Friend Please fill out the following details (fields marked with a * are mandatory):
Send To Email Address*:
Send To Name *:
Sent By Email Address*:
Sent By Name *:
Text to include in email:
Captcha validation:	please enter the code above:

^ Page Top

Comment on this article

More from this section

1. Mary MacKillop DVD to go on sale

   The documentary Blessed Mary: A Saint for All Australians, hosted by Alan Jones, will be launched on DVD in October.

2. Means-test will make private cover pricier: CHA

   Catholic Health Australia has expressed concern that a government plan to means-test the private health insurance rebate could make the cover more expensive.

3. Robertson's book makes false claims: Bishop Porteous

   Geoffrey Robertson's new book, The Case of the Pope: Vatican Accountability for Human Rights Abuse, contains many dramatic and false claims, says Bishop Julian Porteous, auxiliary Bishop of Sydney and Vicar General.

4. Protests mark opening of controversial Pople exhibition

   Demonstrators have protested the opening of artist Rodney Pople's exhibition Bellini 21c in Sydney, carrying placards and a statue of the Virgin Mary and spending three hours praying outside.

5. Police to probe alleged Newcastle abuse cover-up

   Newcastle police have launched a formal investigation into allegations that the Church concealed abuses committed by a priest and tried to defrock him privately.