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1. There was no authority for a clerical Romanised priesthood either, but this didn't present any problems as The Way became subsumed and transformed into Roman structures.
   As for priestesses, this is such a straw man.
   The model adopted by Roman Catholicism is that priesthood fully functioning in Rome, with its Pontifex maximus, its Vatican, its college of priests. The virginal priestesses of Vesta were quite peripheral, and their domain being the domestic locale of the hearth.
   Cultic priestesses (eg of the Great Mother) were always peripheral for Roman citizens.
   The focus for developing and evangelical Catholicsm was always ingratiation to the centre of power, by thought and practise.
   The issue for us really is what is that 'priesthood' of Christ? And that priesthood is intrinsically at one with his humanity, not his gender.
   Surely more than that abrogated from Rome, from empire? Or is that all it is?
   

   Posted By: MJ. Blue Mountains.NSW.

2. I'm getting irritated with this dribs and drabs way of learning what the Pope said in an interview with a German journalist who seems incapable of conducting any sort of penetrating questioning.
   He seems not to have followed up even in this case of the Pope's rebuttal of patriarchy being at the root of a male-only priesthood.
   Did not Christianity follow the Jewish tradition in so much of its liturgy. And does so to this day?
   When did the Apostles realise they were priests, representing Christ, when they commemorated the Last Supper?
   Surely the very description in the Gospels of Jesus choosing twelve men to form his first close followers is similar to God 'choosing' the tribe of Levi to be the priestly tribe. It was a sociological event according to the way the Jews practised their religion. Christianity has expanded beyond the strictures of Judaism.

   Posted By: Pat Moruya NSW

3. My question is 'Why doesn't the Church have any authority to ordain women?'
   I wish Pope Benedict would explain this fully and bring this discussion to an end once and for all.
   The Pope is Christ's representative on earth and his decisions must be adhered to.
   However, Popes can (and have) changed Church laws over the centuries. Those of us who are old enough will remember the days when we would be going to hell for eating meat on Fridays.
   The Church and its people have come a long way since then and I'm sure we are mature and intelligent enough have the issue of women priests explained fully.

   Posted By: Annie - Shepparton

4. In two places in her post, Annie of Shepparton asks for the Pope to explain why the Church does not have power to ordain women.
   The only answer that can be given is that he has already done so. It is all laid out in the Pope’s Apostolic Letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis. No other explanation can be given. Had Christ wanted it otherwise, He would have done it.
   The lack of authority to ordain women – a Tradition dating from Christ Himself - cannot be compared with the relaxation of the rule concerning abstinence, which was never more than a Church discipline.

   Posted By: John of Melbourne

5. Annie: Abstaining from eating meat on Friday is, as you say, a matter of Church law. It can be changed, as it is simply a disciplinary matter. The same with holy days of obligation and lots of other things.
   The priesthood involves doctrine, not just law, and its essentials cannot be changed, even by the Pope, who in his doctrinal pronouncements is bound by tradition.

   Posted By: Lance Eccles, Goulburn NSW

6. It was only a couple of days ago that MJ was singing Benedict's praises for his 'sophisticated stance' on condom use.
   Today he's criticising the Church for everything that makes it a Church, as opposed to a happy clappy, social justice, sing-a-long.
   How quickly things change.

   Posted By: NS, Sydney

7. NS: You are pointing at the wrong person. I haven't commented on the condom issue, nor would I describe such a complex issue with 'sophisticated stance'.
   If you do want my view on it, then read Michael Kelly's excellent blogpiece, and enjoy our re-encounter with actual Catholic Tradition.

   Posted By: MJ.Blue Mountains.NSW.

8. John of Melbourne: There is absolutely no evidence in the NT that Jesus sacerdotally ordained anyone, regardless of gender, to anything at any time in his earthly life.
   Jesus never instituted the Sacramental economy. That developed in the Church over time, a very long time.
   NS, why don't you debate with a bit of 'gravitas'?
   Lance, the 'essentialism' of female exclusion from anything in the NT cannot be proven.
   Of course, BXVI would claim the unchangeability in this issue. As Cd Ratzinger, he probably wrote 'Ordinatio Sacerdotalis' in the first place and certainly he went on to promote it to the Episcopal Connferences as definitive. It had all of the heavy tags hanging off it but one - it does not claim the necessary Canonical authority to be an infallible, ex cathedra, papal dogma. People have not been gagged or silenced. The conversation, no matter how uncomfortable for some, will continue.

   Posted By: David Timbs Albion. Vic.

9. In this matter, as in others viz. divorce, I go back to Christ telling the Apostles that 'what you loose on earth wil be loosed also in Heaven. What you bind on earth will be bound also in Heaven'.
   I read this that Christ gave the Apostles great rights to make laws and deny laws. And this should be also in the matter of celibacy and women's ordination.

   Posted By: gloria healey, Sydney, NSW

10. NS: Our worship of God is a happy clappy, sing-a-long, unless it is grounded in social justice.
    Jesus was good news to the poor. We must remember that.
    Of course we do not always agree with what merits our concerns but concern for humanity is at the heart of our relationship with God.

    Posted By: Anne Boronia

11. I agree with Annie: If a pope really wanted to he could at least begin a dialogue with women.
    At the moment it is nothing but a brick wall and very discouraging - even to women who have not had a vocation.

    Posted By: Anne Parnis Glenelg

12. The fact is Jesus never ordained a priest in his life (nor a bishop).
    He never spoke of them as being part of his community of disciples.
    The fact is there were women disciples, women prophets and, at least, one woman apostle (Rom 16) in the early Church.
    John of Melbourne and Lance Eccles, if priesthood was a matter of doctrine, then why did Jesus not mention it?
    Why did he not make it clear that his community would have these individuals?

    Posted By: Charles (Brisbane)

13. No, NS, you miss the point.
    Seems that ordaining women is a bigger no-no than a sexually active male donning a hat pre-intercourse; and the justification was preventing men from spreading HIV (and the example given was that of rent boys - whose clients are male)
    It could be assumed that the sexual health of males who connect sexually with other males has a priority over the justification for banning women from ordination.
    So far, no-one has give a good Scripture-based reason why women should be barred form priesthood.
    

    Posted By: JR,Sydney

14. Now can we give the subject a rest?

    Posted By: D.A. Davies. Milton.

15. DA: I don't think the subject is going to get a rest – not while this (baby boomer) generation lasts.

    Posted By: Lance Eccles, Goulburn NSW

16. OK, John and Lance: I guess Pope Benedict and all future popes will defer to John Paul 11 in his Ordinatio Sacerdotalis which, apparently, is unchallengeable because of the infallibility of the pope.
    Does this mean that once a doctrine such as this is set out by a particilar pope, no pope from then on has the power to change it?
    I agree with Gloria Healey that when Jesus said 'what you loose on earth will be loosed in Heaven; what you bind on earth will be bound also in Heaven', he was giving his apostles and their succcessors the right to make and deny laws.
    However, the powers that be will forever fall back on Ordinatio Sacerdotalis so nothing is ever going to change in that regard.

    Posted By: Annie - Shepparton

17. I cannot imagine a woman saying Mass, for in my understanding the Mass is the sacrifice of Jesus on Calvary.
    I find it difficult to picture a woman saying, 'This is my Body.... This is my Blood...'
    God became a man,not a woman, for our redemption.
    Let us humbly accept the Pope's ruling and get on with the mission of Christ!

    Posted By: M.M. Sydney,NSW

18. I agree with MJ and with David Timbs. It's sad, too, that the Pope seems so unaware of the history of the Church and of the sociology around it. I hope it is lack of awareness - I'd certainly be sorry to think he ignored it.
    This is especially important in this new era when the role of the papacy, and the personality of an individual pope, has become central.
    It certainly seems to me that the Church is being cut off from access to the deep and rich scholarship developed during nearly two thousand years!

    Posted By: Joan Seymour Albion, Vic.

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