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1. The history of the linking of celibacy to priesthood can be researched.
   What is more difficult to fathom is how the Church can maintain that the gift of priesthood automatically requires the gift of celibacy, except, of course, if you're a married minister from another denomination seeking the status of Catholic and ordination as well.
   Requiring both gifts of a single Catholic person (sorry, man...that's another story) is like telling God what to do.
   God bless these Irish priests for saying out aloud what so many others think.
   Actually, the Church can make whatever rules it likes, but the days of people accepting that the rulings are necessarily what God wants are gone, despite the current restorationism.

   Posted By: Sister Susan Connelly

2. Be warned - abolishing celibacy will merely introduce a raft of new problems to be faced by married clergy, such as adultery, divorce etc., not to mention the additional expenses and diversions of married life. Just ask the Anglicans!
   

   Posted By: Ramsay Williams

3. I do not believe that there should be mass meeting of priests, etc trying to bring an end to celibacy and the ordination of women. Not all agree with these proposals and as such it will cause division and where there is division, evil prevails. The Vatican has laws for a reason and maybe it is that we should allow the Holy Spirit to guide us because I am sure God has a plan in place. He will never leave us.

   Posted By: Kate

4. The Church cannot make whatever rules it wants; it must remain faithful to what Christ has given us.
   For those who believe in the divine origin of the Church, this is clear. Those who lobby for radical changes see the Church as a collective of individuals who just happen to share their story, their own chosen myths, and they get upset at the idea of dogma.
   Sorry, you can't have it both ways; either Christ is our teacher, and so we have to listen to Him and can be blessed to be part of the Church, or we have no teacher but ourselves, in which case we are not part of the Church.

   Posted By: TC

5. Thank you for speaking, Susan.
   If the choice of marriage were introduced (Paul VI made it clear celibacy is not an essential part of our priesthood), it seems strange to only focus on the horrible things that can happen.
   As a civil marriage celebrant, I can only imagine what my couples would think if I told them not to marry because they will be exposed to the possibility of adultery and divorce.
   I do actually try to point out the need to seriously consider having Relationship Education prior to marriage to develop skills to avoid these situations (we are required by Attorn Gen Dept to do so).
   But, of course, they are looking to all the wonderful things marriage can bring (as well anticipating the difficult).
   I agree, Kate, that God has a plan in place and that He will never leave us. The question is: does the Holy Spirit only exercise His plan through Rome or sometimes also through His whole community? The Vatican does have laws for a reason but the Vatican is not just a Legislative Assembly, is it? And, as Jesus said and lived, the laws are for setting us free; we were not created to simply follow laws.

   Posted By: Mike Yates

6. Celibacy is a great gift, but not when it is imposed.
   The sooner the priesthood makes this optional, the sooner it will be enriched and renewed.

   Posted By: Daryl Barclay

7. Fantastic; good on the Irish priests and more strength to their arm. Rome should listen to the people in the pews. I thoroughly agree with Sister Susan and Daryl Barclay.

   Posted By: Jeff KETTERING TAS 7155

8. I wish I could be confident that the Catholic Church hierarchy has only God's plans at the forefront of the Church's rules. However, I do not believe that.
   Instead, I think there are many reasons why the Catholic Church does not want priests to marry and to remain celibate, some financial, some control, and others.
   I agree with many other comments already made that we are lead by God and Christ Jesus, the Son of God, and the Church cannot pick and choose what teachings they follow.
   Kate, do you mean that we should not question anything and that we should not speak out when we believe something is wrong for fear of causing division? That is a very dangerous precedent.
   God gave me a brain, a soul, a conscience and a voice and I am lucky enough to live in a free country where I can use them, to hopefully make things better.

   Posted By: Cate Wallace

9. Well said, Daryl, Susan and Mike.
   It beggers belief that the majority of the Catholic Church is not listened to, absolute crazy stuff.
   The older I get (70+), the more I am disappointed that the church (ie bishops) refuse to listen to th voice of the faithful!

   Posted By: Peter H Lyall

10. The celibacy of priesthood and the openness to children in marriage are intertwined, cf. Theology of the Body - remove one, remove the other.
    Be steadfast in one, be steadfast in the other.
    Instead of modernising the Church even more, which is practically impossible anyway, a return to orthodoxy is the only solution. Plain and simple.

    Posted By: Mary

11. The website of the Association of Catholic Priests gives a link to the Irish Times which has a number of articles about the meeting the ACP held on Monday.
    The ACP also has a statement that mentions more than '1,000 persons' present.
    I could not find a figure for the number of priests present. The reports and comments on the ACP website all indicate that the vast majority present were on the older side and that very many were lay people.
    While your headline is not untrue, it and the story, ironically, ignore the presence of many lay people at this meeting organised by the ACP and at which many lay people expressed their views, not all in support of women priests, etc.

    Posted By: Fr Sean Coyle

12. Darryl: I agree. Imposed celibacy would be a terrble thing.
    Thank God it doesn't happen in the Catholic Church.
    Thank God priests choose the celibate life when they are called to the priesthood. Pray to God for those priests who wish to go back on their vows.
    Incidentally, I would like to comment on this story by saying that these poor priests' call for the ordination of women is tragically disobedient, as we in Toowoomba can attest.
    Their righteous anger over sexual abuse and its cover up, on the other hand, I wholeheartedly sympathise with.
    I hope they direct their anger towards those actually responsible, and not just choose a scapegoat on which to vent their rage.

    Posted By: Paul Keen

13. This story seems to be an outrageous beat-up by SBS.
    Contrary to SBS' claims of
    'Hundreds of ... priests ... call for an end to compulsory celibacy for the priesthood... also call for the ordination of women,.... an unprecedented challenge to the Vatican'.
    In fact according to reports in the Irish media (generally highly critical of the Church) and the statement put out by the organisation which organised the meeting, only a minority of Irish priests have any connection to the group, the vast majority of the 1000 or so people at the meeting were lay people, and it made no call for married clergy or for the ordination of women.
    The statement released by the organisation about the meeting says only that it calls for 'dialogue at all levels of the Irish church'. It doesn't say what it wants to dialogue about.

    Posted By: Sharon

14. As a priest who left to marry, I've had experiences of married life which would have been very helpful to me as a priest.
    One can be empathetic all one likes, but real-life experiences of parental joys and sorrows, intimate relational happenings and the reality of non-subsidised family life teach more than a celibate priest could hope to understand.
    The church allows exceptions to the clerical celibacy rule, so it's disingenuous to claim a quasi-essential need for celibacy.

    Posted By: Matt

15. It's all so simple apparently. 'The Church' had it wrong for so long.
    Us moderns are so enlightened that we can just propose whatever we like can be changed.

    Posted By: Peter in Canberra

16. The call to end compulsory celibacy and allow ordination of women seems symptomatic of a wider desire to throw off a cultural malaise which has allwed extreme polarity to manifest in Irish society recently (consider sectarianism; its embrace of extreme moneterism).
    There's no avoiding it: Irish society, for all its 'modernisation' is still fundamentally rooted in a medieval village mentality, where order is based on hierarchical patronage and family - and avoiding the truth. Those who don't fit leave.
    The Church in Ireland has perpetuated this outlook and benefited.
    There's a truth: when something is manifestly wrong in a village, there's first denial, then rightous anger, and finally recognition the 'wrong' as a self-reflection: the outcome of disordered values or collective behaviour.
    Rejection of the Church's authority and power in Eire is symptomatic of this dynamic, rather like a group of stroppy adolescents throwing off parental strictures: everyone enjoys the benefits but not the boundaries. There's no doubt: the Church has responsibility for a dynamic culture of receptivity and dialogue. But the call by 'some' Irish clergy should be kept in perspective.
    My experience of the Republic is of a deepseated individual self-rightousness in its cultural makeup. Irish society - to some extent - perpetuated the cultural mores now rejected. It is in a sense 'growing up'.
    So, is the priest's call merely to maintain old cultural priorities, or is it promoting a deeper, more integral Christianity?
    I suspect the call by the priests call more reflects the former.

    Posted By: Brendon McMahon

17. The abolition of celibacy is no panacea for perceived shortcomings regarding dearth of vocations, clerical sex-abuse cases or fall-off in religious practice.
    Alterations to Church doctrine and practice, as that promulgated by the ACP, has been tried and found sorely wanting in the Anglican and Lutheran churches.
    The numbers of their adherents and influence have scarcely grown as a result, and are actually very much in decline over recent decades.
    The celibate state, while regarded as a discipline that can potentially be changed by the Church, is a precious charism that provides the priest with the necessary freedom to serve his flock selflessly, in the manner of Christ.
    Indeed Jesus is the perfect model for the sacerdotal office.

    Posted By: Gerry McIvor,

18. Some Irish Priests...

    Posted By: D.A. Davies.

19. There is no betrayal, the use of 'traditional' is a misnomer here.
    The tradition of both celibacy and of married priests rather than celibacy with a few exceptions, should be restored.
    It is perfectly all right for any member of the Church from the Pope down to any parishioners to call for an amendment to the existing rule.
    It involves no de fide article at all.

    Posted By: Michael Webb

20. As a man now married for 29 years, I take exception to Ramsay William's comment.
    Most marriages, believe it or not, do not end up in adultry and divorce.
    Sadly the failures are highlighted at the expense of the majority sucessful unions.
    I have written before, and I repeat yet again: Jesus never ruled that priests had to take a vow of celibracy.
    Indeed the apostles were all married men.
    We know women played a leading role in the early church communities.
    There is no scriptural requirement either.
    This rule is a rule of the Church; it is not and never has been Dogma.

    Posted By: Gavin

21. Gavin: As a married woman, I must sadly inform you that you are mistaken.
    The statistics show that the majority of marriages in Australia in the past few decades end in adultery and/or divorce.
    This is much higher than the failure rate for celibate priests.
    I'm not sure who you are arguing against by pointing out that the celibacy of priests is not dogma, as nobody I know of has ever claimed it is.
    It is however dogma that the Church has no power to ordain women to the priesthood, therefore they cannot ever play that leading role in the Church. And there is no evidence from either Scripture or other historical evidence that they ever have.
    The only mention of women leaders in the early centuries occurs in the writings of the Early Church Fathers who point out that certain heretical sects had women leaders, and they adduce this fact in itself as proof that these sects are not part of the Church founded by Christ.
    'Jesus never ruled' specifically in the Scripture quotes from Him, on any number of things you can name, which however Catholics are obliged to do and to believe, as He did rule that we must obey the men whom He placed in charge of His church on earth.
    He certainly strongly urged His Apostles to be celibate, and there is no evidence from either Scripture or other sources to support your claim that 'the apostles were all married men'.
    We know for a fact that at least some of them were celibate and urged celibacy for others who would minister in the Church.
    If you are looking for a denomination founded on the theory 'make up your own private interpretation of Scripture and decide from that what rules a group of Christ's followers should have', you will find plenty of such organisations to choose from, but the Catholic Church founded by Christ has never been one of them.

    Posted By: Sharon

22. Until recently, I was all for a change to the celibacy rule for priests, and half of me still thinks that way for reasons of loneliness, isolation etc, but I think the issue is really about divided loyalties, for example, (and at the risk of over simplifying it). If a married priest had a sick wife/child, and he received a call to go to the hospital to annoint someone, which would be his priority? And if he chose the Hospital call, what effect would that have on the marriage?
    I think the issue is more about those sort of situations that that they (the hierarchy) think celibacy is the 'higher' state. And of course, there would be separations, divorces and other marriage-related difficulties, the same as within the community in general.
    We rarely if ever hear about the stats relating to say, Anglican clergy divorce.

    Posted By: Loretta

23. Sharon: What statistics are you citing ?

    Posted By: Francis

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